Curse

SirJackassIII · Dec 29, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davros Uitar

I think that there has been a lot of focus on the emotive and "legal" aspects of the topic, but just doing some musing myself on what the upcoming decision means for the business model that ANET was (or is) trying to encourage.

From all accounts, the on line store direction has been about keeping costs of production / distribution down to a minimum. They offered a bonus promotion to get people to take up / comply with that model. I am sure that weighing into the upcoming re-release decision are thoughts on :

1) What percentage made the swap and what did that do to the ANET bottom line?

2) How many would abandon the online store if the BMP were offered again (ie return to wanting a box and waiting for the next propmotion to be reversed by weight of popular opinion)

3) Given that people now have some idea of the value of ANET promotions, if they don't re-release, what percentage might they shift over to the online store next time they have a new promo / release (ie people seeing that not getting onboard is a choice with consequences).

Now I can say I am in category 1, and I would more than likely migrate back to category 2 if I felt that things could be reversed with a darn good ruckus and bleating.

Gaile is right - the decision will make some happy and others not. I think there will be a large proportion of players with in interest in that, so either way some significant number is going to be pleased and another similar number will be peeved. There is no doubt that ANET can make some extra money out of a re-release of the BMP, but they are going to have to be careful not to kill their push towards online distribution.

Its going to be interesting to see where this goes. I have the BMP and am not totally opposed to a re-release - both sides have merit to their arguments. I think though that if ANET wants to maintain (or indeed accelerate) a push towards the online store then they will more than likely need to price it high enough that people who swapped away fro the box see that they got sufficient value. I am thinking of a promo something like a minimum 20 dollars spent through the online store allows you the rights to buy the BMP for another 15 dollars. Lets face it - the rest of us had to spend a minimum 30 dollars in the store for it and not all of us did that just by buying GWEN.

Well - thats my 2 cents anyway

35$ for the BMP is ridiculous. As you said, most of us have a boxed version of GWEN already, and not everyone needs character slots, so it'll be a larger group of people complaining about how they have to buy Character slots to get the BMP than the ones complaining now. Hell, most people that have the BMP price it at 5-10$. If they price it that high, ANet won't see a lot of extra sales for the BMP.

Also, about the whole reversal thing. Next time, ANet won't have a good reason to go back and make it available again. This time, they do. Additional payment options had not been implemented yet. However, my guess would be that *if* the BMP becomes available again, that would be after those additional payment options have been added. Which means no one would have an excuse not to participate unless they choose to.
The problem with the current promotion has always been that some people in some countries didn't have a choice. It was boxed version or nothing due to the lack of a CC, access to pepaid ones or whatever. If however sufficient payment options are added, it becomes a matter of choice on the consumer's behalf, in which case they won't have a reason to ***** and complain afterwards except "it r purty, me want". As it is now, a lot of European players (including myself) wanted to buy from the OLS, but simply couldn't. That issue would/should be fixed by the next promotion, which removes the main reason why the BMP should be rereleased.

Tom Swift · Dec 29, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

Please keep in mind the Gaile is a representative of the company, and not the webmaster or policy maker. As such, she is only able to be a sympathetic ear to us and a go-between from us to the developers. I don't think attacking or picking apart what she says is going to help our case.

I do agree that the wording for the BMP offer is quite vague, and it should be looked into, but these questions could have also been brought up before the trial came and went. If you had written verification that buying *some other* PlayNC product for $30 would get you the BMP, then you have a leg to stand on, otherwise, never assume too much...

I would agree if it weren't for the fact that the notice was NOT vague. It did specifically say "any purchase from PlayNC." Also, it did not appear until about 24 - 48 hours before the end of the promotion. It actually took longer to get a straight message from ANet/PlayNC than the remainder of the promotion. The choice to ask first and then order was not an option as their response time was far too slow.

I was lucky in that I ordered but did not activate the purchase and did not tie my account to the PlayNC account and so I was able to insist they refund my money. However, at least one other who posted on these boards was not so fortunate.

Gaile may not be the webmaster but she is responsible for learning about problems we discuss here and communicating them to those who can fix them. I thought it best to point out the lie in the their web page now rather than let them mislead customer with the same wording again if they happen to release it as a promotion the 2nd time.

lakatz · Dec 29, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Hi Gaile...

When I've been in LA helping people with their Wintersday quests, I've encountered quite a number of people asking where to go to get one of the BMP stories, I send them to Durmand the historian, Durmand won't give them the stories and through investigation we discover they don't have the BMP and never heard about the promotion. What about those people? There are large numbers of them.

I'm happy to hear the people responsible for the accounting system utilized in the stores is broadening their field of vision in terms of payment options.

To those who want the box, my suggestion is that you get over the idea of packaging, and don't upgrade your CD and DVD players either. Anything that can be turned into zeros and ones and downloaded is now and will be for a very long time to come. Encoding departments is where post production houses are experienced the largest growth. The digital delivery system market is growing rapidly as well. Television screens are incorporating the same technology as computer monitors and everything is moving from interlaced to progressive scans. We will be downloading all of our canned visual and audio entertainment in the not too distant future. This is the direction of progress. NCSoft and ANet are just going with the flow of progress.

I'd also like you to consider the fact that paper and plastic packaging only hurts the environment, and I encourage the elimination of paper and plastic as much as possible.

Croco Clouds · Dec 29, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Recycle and saving woods are good, so why bother with the box?

trobinson97 · Dec 29, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

^^Lol

What was that from, a madlib?

Hi Gaile...

When I've been in Kamadan helping people with their island quests, I've encountered quite a number of people asking where to go to get one of the divine auras, I tell them to type a special emote but it doesn't work and through investigation we discover they don't have the right Edition and never heard about the Collector's Edition. What about those people? There are large numbers of them.

lakatz · Dec 29, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

^^Lol

What was that from, a madlib?

Hi Gaile...

When I've been in Kamadan helping people with their island quests, I've encountered quite a number of people asking where to go to get one of the divine auras, I tell them to type a special emote but it doesn't work and through investigation we discover they don't have the right Edition and never heard about the Collector's Edition. What about those people? There are large numbers of them.

You're stretching. You're making a connection that just does not exist, and it doesn't take an IQ much over 90 to see that. They never said the BMP was going to be a a limited edition. A collector's edition is inherently limited. Not the same thing... except maybe in your dreams.

Tyla · Dec 29, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

doesn't "one time only" mean "limited edition"?
cuz last time i checked it DID say one time only

CHannum · Dec 29, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

doesn't "one time only" mean "limited edition"?
cuz last time i checked it DID say one time only

Maybe I missed some earlier page, but the only promotion page that I ever saw is still up on the official site and says nothing of the sort and is painfully clear about what's limited (the time to get the BMP *free*) versus all the wishful thinking on the parts of so many bitter epeen waving jerks.

Tyla · Dec 29, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

well i shall share something i learned a long time ago..
You do not value something so, until you've lost it.
this goes to the chances of this, some people did not value it, until the offer faded.
but seriously, can we stop discussing this age old debate?
life goes on

IlikeGW · Dec 29, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

A collector's edition is inherently limited.

A promotion is collector's stuff too. You don't expect anything promotional to become a retail item.

I agree with the person a page back who said this means most people know they can avoid the online store from now on, get a hard copy, and buy whatever extras they want later. And to be honest, fine, I'll do that. Lesson learned, online store devalued for launches.

lakatz · Dec 29, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

doesn't "one time only" mean "limited edition"?
cuz last time i checked it DID say one time only

First of all I would like you to provide a link to the place where they say "one time only." I've looked and I can't find it.

Second of all, here again you are confusing the promotion with the Bonus Mission Pack. The promotion to get the BMP free with purchase was for a limited time. The BMP is for as long as GW exists.

Have you ever got a gift with purchase before this? Say for example at the Lancome counter where if you buy $100 worth of Lancome products (for a limited time only), you get a free Lancome cosmetic bag filled with a free neutral color lipstick and a free small bottle of moisturizer. All of those items are otherwise for sale. The promotion is offering those things for free with purchase during a limited time period, not offering those things exclusively. That would be plain stupid not to have them available for sale to those who don't buy $100 worth of product or during times the promotion is not in effect.

Saraphim · Dec 29, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

I have to ask, if it was so painfully clear that it could be offered again, why were so many people asking about it being released again all the time months back, before the promotion ended, and just after.

Again, I'll state that personally I'm not bothered if they offer it again, and yes I do have it. The amount of Nelson Muntz style "ha-ha" and pointing from both sides is getting tiresome.

lakatz · Dec 29, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

A promotion is collector's stuff too. You don't expect anything promotional to become a retail item.

See my answer above.

Additionally, it would really help this discussion (and all your future discussions) if you would learn of what you speak before you speak... rather than make untrue statements because you haven't done so... capiche?

IlikeGW · Dec 29, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

See my answer above.

Additionally, it would really help this discussion (and all your future discussions) if you would learn of what you speak before you speak... rather than make untrue statements because you haven't done so... capiche?

I'm just going by reality, not being an asshole who's playing semantic PR games to change the rules

lakatz · Dec 29, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

I'm just going by reality, not being an asshole who's playing semantic PR games to change the rules

Your reality is necessarily limited to your degree of experience. Experience is the best teacher.

I'm guessing your degree of experience is equal to that which can be obtained in a lifetime of say... 13 years?... none of them spent in the world of business yet?

For the record, my degree of experience is equal to that which can be obtained in a lifetime of 59 years of which 35 have been spent in the world of business, most recently the business of technology.

In all fairness, I will admit that at age 13 I did not know the value of knowing of what I speak before I spoke. I learned it the hard way... by making a fool of myself.

Tyla · Dec 29, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

the bmp is for as long as gw exists...true that, but the bmp was PART of the promotion.

how am i confusing the two? they were both under the same principles, a promotion is nothing without a bonus

and i said "last time i checked", i could've misread, as some people do.
i don't claim my statements to be entirely true until proven either, i didnt have any TRUE proof.
but in the end, if your statement was so true, you didnt give in proof either.

can i have some of the proof?

Master Knightfall · Dec 29, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I don't have a problem with alternate ways to obtain it as long as it costs $30 as that is what everyone had to pay to get this promotional item. To me it was $30 for the promotional item and only $10 for GWEN.

So, everyone better have to pay $30 to get it (if/when it ever comes out again) an of course only thru the ingame store.

Quote:

I learned it the hard way... by making a fool of myself.

And at '59' you're still doing it? Tsk tsk tsk, some people just never growup.

~

Jongo River · Dec 29, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

I have to ask, if it was so painfully clear that it could be offered again, why were so many people asking about it being released again all the time months back, before the promotion ended, and just after.

Because it was clear that it could be, not that it would be. Anet never made a commitment on this, either way (still hasn't, really).

WinterSnowblind · Dec 29, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

I don't have a problem with alternate ways to obtain it as long as it costs $30 as that is what everyone had to pay to get this promotional item. To me it was $30 for the promotional item and only $10 for GWEN.

So, everyone better have to pay $30 to get it (if/when it ever comes out again) an of course only thru the ingame store.

You did not pay $30 for the BMP, it was a free promotion. If anything, you may have paid $5-10 more than you would have from buying the game from a regular store.. but that extra still wasn't because of the BMP.

Regardless, I couldn't see them charging the same price as one of the full games, for a few extra missions. They want to MAKE money, remember?

lakatz · Dec 29, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

the bmp is for as long as gw exists...true that, but the bmp was PART of the promotion.

how am i confusing the two? they were both under the same principles, a promotion is nothing without a bonus

and i said "last time i checked", i could've misread, as some people do.
i don't claim my statements to be entirely true until proven either, i didnt have any TRUE proof.
but in the end, if your statement was so true, you didnt give in proof either.

can i have some of the proof?

Hi tyla...

You said it yourself. "...the bmp was PART of the promotion." A part of a whole is not equal to the whole. The BMP was the thing you got for free after the promotion that ran from July 5 to October 31 (limited time) if you met the conditions of the promotion... just like in the Lancome example I gave. Offering something for free during a promotion that runs for a limited does not imply exclusivity.

Your proof is right there in the pages on the GW site that define the promotion. There's nothing in them that implies exclusivity. Here is the link:

http://www.guildwars.com/products/extras/missionpack/

For a limited time, when you spend $29 USD (€26/£17) or more in the Guild Wars In-Game Store or through the PlayNC Store, you will get a Guild Wars Bonus Mission Pack for free!

It doesn't imply there or anywhere else on that page or the BMP FAQ page that the BMP will not be offered for sale or in another promotion at a later date. So, although it's not that difficult to, it's really not safe to assume it wouldn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

I learned it the hard way... by making a fool of myself.

And at '59' you're still doing it? Tsk tsk tsk, some people just never growup. ~

I am absolutely still making a fool of myself... especially when I do things like get down on the floor and play SPD Emergency Power Rangers with my 4-1/2 year old grandson... but not by putting something out there as fact that I can't back up. If I can't, I always add caveats such as "I believe...," "I think...," "I'm guessing...," etc.

And you're not still making a fool of yourself?... Really?